Ephesians 1

guitarnut37 · Puppy Joined: 23 Feb 2002 Posts: 223

OK, guys, if it's ok with you, I'll kick this one off?

I really like what Paul has to say to the saints of Ephesus in vs. 15-22, especially the following verses:

Vs. 16 "do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers" Wow, if we could only give thanks for others, rather than grumble and complain, it would probably go a long way in our spiritual walk.

vs. 17 "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him" Wisdom and revelation in this verse is speaking of practical principles and an understanding of its application. The Holy Spirit can supernaturally give us both, if we allow Him.

vs. 18 "the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints" This is the main verse I want to hit upon. 3 powerful things here (1) our understanding being enlightened - receiving hope when we realize what God has invested in us; (2) knowing what is the hope of His calling - God has a destiny for each of us to fulfill. All of His children are blessed with gifts and talents; we just need to build on them and declare for our talents to make room for us; (3) the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints - WOW! God has given us an inheritance! He has invested something into His people! What is it? Romans 8:17 tells us that we are heirs of God; joint-heirs with Jesus. This means what Jesus has, we have! What Jesus is entitled to, so are we! I want all of what God has for me! I'm not about to let the enemy come in and steal it from me, for it's my inheritance from God! I think as Christians, one of our number 1 problems is that we do not have a clear revelation of who we are in Christ; both of our inheritance and our authority. We not only do not have to let the devil take from us, but we have the power to possess the land and run the trespasser out, and to possess anything means we have to drive out the previous tenant (Satan, your eviction notice is being served)!

How wonderful and mighty an army for God we will be, when the Church finally comes to this realization!!

Well, that's my stab at it....NEXT!!

LOL,

Tim

[This message has been edited by guitarnut37 (edited August 08, 2002).]

Michael D · Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2002 4:12 am Post subject: Ephesians 1

Thanks Tim. Good points! My $.02 on a couple other verses....

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4 Long ago, even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. 5 His unchanging plan has always been to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. And this gave him great pleasure.

Predestination (God choosing us before we chose Him) is a tough concept, but for me it removes the ability to claim any credit for being clever enough to accept Christ as my Savior. The faith itself is a gift! Christ's sacrifice was for all men, but somehow, in God's infinite wisdom, He "chose" only some of us to give the gift of faith to. Fortunately, we don't know which of our neighbors have been "chosen" and we're commanded to share the good news with our lives, and words, with them all.

Somehow, God's perfect plan includes predestination, but also the responsibility of man to be open to Him. As I've mentioned before, "No one who finds themselves in Heaven can claim any credit for being there, and no one who finds themselves in Hell can blame anyone but themselves for being there."

Isn't it great to have been chosen by the God of the Universe to share in His incredible inheritance? How blessed to be adopted by the wealthiest, kindest, wisest Father there is! What a wonderful eternity He has in store for us!

More later in the week....

Mike <><

Sixstring · Kitten Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 140

The subject of predestination can seem tricky, but if you follow the logical path, it's fairly simple. God called everyone to serve Him. At the same time, He knew who would accept and who wouldn't. Those are the ones He "foreknew". Those He foreknew were predestined "to be conformed to the likeness of Christ". It has nothing to do with salvation. Predestination is the outcome for the Christian (to be conformed), it is not an arbitrary way of deciding who would or would not be saved.

I did a study on this a few years back and wrote a paper on it. (Not that that makes me an authority, just means I searched it out and wrote down what I found.) If anyone here is interested I'll dig it up and post the bit on predestination. This was the nutshell version.

matdvd · Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 12:08 am Post subject: Ephesians 1

My penny and a half has always found this topic fascinating as well.

My belief from what I read and meditate on, agrees that the all-knowing God already knows, and knew, who would accept this wonderful gift laid before us. I may be wrong, as I have most of the time, but I cannot grasp the concept of God creating a human with a hell sentence already prejudged. Not meaning He doesn't already know the outcome, but that the individual doesn't have a choice. I think the most honor that God has given us is the right to chose. Even knowing it will destroy most of us. Justice could only be accomplished as a result of our own choices.

At least that's my take on it.

Great topic fellas!

Michael D · Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2002 2:46 am Post subject: Ephesians 1

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And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. 14 The Spirit is God's guarantee that he will give us everything he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. This is just one more reason for us to praise our glorious God.

I don't often think of the gift of the Holy Spirit as a "deposit" or guarantee of promises to come. If the Holy Spirit helps us to understand a little about God's character and plan, won't it be wonderful to receive full appreciation for Him and His plan? It's hard to imagine all that God has in store for us. More reason to praise our glorious God, indeed! TYF!

matdvd · Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2002 2:38 pm Post subject: Ephesians 1

TYF indeed!

Thx Mike!

Zathrus · Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:10 am Post subject: Ephesians 1

I think the predestination question has to be looked at in the context of the culture and time in which these epistles were written, not to mention the context of the passage the specific verses are found in.

Paul's subject in Ephesians 1 and 2 (pardon me for not having a Bible in front of me as I type this) is God's plan of redemption for mankind. This started with His dealings with Israel in the old testament, but was completed when He brought the old covenant to an end and embraced all mankind, not just Israel, as His people. Paul's subject matter in the first couple of chapters has a lot to do with the inclusion of the Gentiles into God's plan. He tells them they are no longer strangers to God's promises. He tells them at one time they were separated from Israel, excluded from God's kingdom, but at the time of his writing, were accepted. Paul goes so far as to call the inclusion of the Gentiles as God's people "the mystery which has been hidden from ages and generations" or something like that. He considered this the greatest spiritual mystery there was!

Nowadays, non-Jewish people being saved is something we have no trouble accepting. In the 1st century, it was unthinkable to most people. Paul's writings were revolutionary and controversial because he wrote that Gentiles too were God's people, and that they received salvation as a free gift, not by keeping any law or commandment.

I believe Paul's point in the "predestination" verses in the first or second chapter of Ephesians is that God predestined from the beginning that Gentiles should be heirs of salvation along with Israel. He was telling them God had planned this from the beginning, and when Christ came, the time had come when He was bringing it to pass. These verses have to be understood as applying to Jew/Gentile, not as applying to individuals.

Even if you look at Romans 9 - 11, which is another big predestination passage, where Paul goes so far as to say there are some who were ceated as vessels of wrath and others created as vessels of glory, you'll find he's talking about Israel rejecting the gospel message in his day, and the Gentiles thereby receiving the promise of salvation.

Once someone pointed this stuff out to me, it really cleared up the question of predestination for me. If this helps anyone, I'm glad.

matdvd · Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:42 am Post subject: Ephesians 1

Excellent commentary Z.

Always welcome to jump in. I love it!

Barry · Tadpole Joined: 26 Jan 2004 Posts: 22

Sixstring,

There's a bit more to election than that. What you described is no election at all. Did God elect some men to be saved and not others? Yes He did, if you believe the Bible He did ( tons of scripture refs if you want them). Does this mean that we don't have to use our free will and repent and believe? No, you do have free will to choose to believe or not. Did God have to look forward in time to see who would choose to believe? No, that would be to assume that God was not "All Knowing" and that he needed additional info. You see, it's both because the Bible teaches both. Our job is not to understand it, just believe it. See, this doctrine is very spiritual and we, being on earth mortals and stuck "In time" will never be able to reconcile the two. It's a deep doctrine. Most folks choose either free will or Election then spiritualize what the Bible says against what they hold in order to shore up their belief. Believe me I know. I've been on both sides of the fence in opossing seminaries and neither side, holded rigourously, will stand with Bible sincere investigation.
So I believe them both. The way I see it is that Election is an "invisible reality, while free will is a visible truth. Much like faith and works, regeneration and sanctification ect. Many Bilbe truths have a visible truth you can see-feel-touch ect and an inward reality or "Substance". For example the Lord's supper and Water Baptism: Visible elements-inward reality. The visible truth or element always reinforces the inward reality or the true Substance.
Hope this helps.

Barry