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Steve
Bear Cub
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:14 am Post subject: Dexter Gordon , et al, hey scott sharring! (recommendations) |
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There was a period after Be Bop and the Cool period in the middle late fifties that is kind of known as Hard Bop.
I like a lot of Jazz, but Hardbop is a favorite for me. I like the phrasing, ideas, and overall sound of the Hardbop era.
The record label Bluenote, became very active in this area, recording many of today's heavy hitters who are still with us from say, '55 through about 1962.
I think of resonent Tenor saxophone as being very much a part of the Jazz sound generally, and I like a LOT of the Tenor sax from the '50's and 60's (and of course other periods as well, but when I run across Jazz on the radio that really pulls my ear in, well let's just say it ain't so-called "smooth jazz"). 
Early Dexter Gorgon is that sound.
I also like a lot of guys who have played with Horace Silver, both with him and after they established themselves as leaders in their own right:
Junior Cook has that burly Hardbop sound.
I also like Lou Donaldson and Benny Golson (also with trumpeter Art Farmer).
I like the trumpet sounds of the period too, like Clifford Brown, and Blue Mitchell (who played with Horace Silver).
For guitar of that period, I like Barney Kessel's early ones (Easy Like, BK Plays Standards, and the Poll Winners albums, with Shelly Mann and Ray Brown).
Howard Robert's "HR is a Dirty Guitar Player," is a good album from the sixties.
Naturally the Jazz genre is very broad but when I think of a Jazz sound I like almost without exception, it is the Hardbop era of the middle/late '50s.
Bluenote was THE record label for a lot of this, though their current output isn't as good.
Disclaimer:
If there's one thing I'm sure about, it's MY opinions!  |
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sharring
Tiger
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 812
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| My first teacher had a huge influence on me on what is cool. He was a big Dexter Gordan/Sonny Rollins fan. I listened without having a context to put it into...liked what I heard but liked the Rolling Stones too. I went back to school a couple of times since then and was always able to take a music class/stage band on the side so i recieved a beginners grounding in Bebop and the School of Cool al la Miles Davis. I appreciated what Bird and Dizzy did but it didn't pull at my heart-just wore me out. I liked cool jazz better...esp. Gerry Mulligan but my education kinda ended there. My teacher did turn me on to the Poll Winners though...especially loved the one album with "Soft Winds". I had never heard such interplay before. It sounded like they were in each others head! And Barney was bluesy! What a sad ending to his story. Talk later, work now. Be God's-scott |
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Steve
Bear Cub
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| sharring wrote: | | ...My teacher did turn me on to the Poll Winners though...especially loved the one album with "Soft Winds". I had never heard such interplay before. It sounded like they were in each others head! And Barney was bluesy! What a sad ending to his story. Talk later, work now. Be God's-scott |
You have an ear for interplay, great!
Instrumental music is manipulation of sound, but at higher levels it is also language.
Jazz at it's best is conversational: like a discussion among musicians but without words.
Other stuff kinda runs its course with me. I like all kinds of music, but Jazz keeps me coming back again and again.
Many people, especially non-players, often think of Jazz as cerebral or exclusive, like guys contemplating their navels musically, or something.
Be-Bop and players like Dizzy Gilespie weren't as accessible to the listeners as some of the more "commercial" stuff (which of course they eschewed in favor of demonstrating their virtuosity with Be Bop).
But as you have heard, there can be interaction and inclusion with the listener as well.
In Ken Burns PBS film, "Jazz," Wynton Marsalis states that Jazz is negotiation. We negotiate life with a series of compromises and statements. It's all around us every day.
Jazz as "negotiation of agendas" within a musical conversation is what I love about it.
Of course, I'm also still learning the language too! It's a life long pursuit.
I don't want to come off as having knowledge I don't possess.
I'll allow that I too am a "student of the Jazz genre."
I get to play lots of Jazz in this town on a weekly basis, but there are guys around here who play like I want to, but cannot (yet).
I always thought Barney Kessell's EASY LIKE album was the bar I should try to make it over, but he had a LOT going on!
Yes, it's too bad he had a stroke which prevented him playing for his last 10 years (he died of brain cancer last year). He was one of the elder statesmen of Jazz guitar. There are less and less of them who are still playing.
Johnny Smith is still alive but no longer plays. His albums in the sixties on the Contemporary label were great. Not much of that has made it to CD. I see Moonlight in Vermont (with Stan Getz) around in CD format, but the vinyl LP "Kaleidoscope," was fantastic in its entirety. Worth looking for. |
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sharring
Tiger
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 812
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Barney had a column in GP that I would always read growing up. Once he told about meeting Charlie Christian. Sad that they couldn't eat at the same diner together! I also had an LP with "live" CC....Stomping at the Savoy" and others. I remember 80 bars of Bam Bam Bam...four to the bar rhythm and then this beautifully fat horn-like guitar would come in. You know CC had a great sound too in addition to chops. His little tube amp would be right at the point of breaking up without mushing out. Reminds me-right now there is an old Gibson 150 tweed amp on fleabay for under $500-can i borrow some money?  Steve, I've got "Moonlight in Vermont". The fast harmonized lines sound kinda corny to me but the chord melody solo guitar stuff kills! I'll look for that other album you mentioned. Well after talking to you I see I have a big gap in my jazz education-it's called the 1950's! Thanks for taking the time with me Brother-it's appreciated. Be God's-scott |
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Brian
Pit Bull
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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 Wow, I'm not knowledgable on Jazz history at all.  What I don't know would fill a documentary. I just play a little... |
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sharring
Tiger
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 812
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I feel like the guy who read the crib notes compared to Bro Steve-if he wrote a book I would buy it. Brian, i like knowing where things kinda came from and who influenced who etc. It gives me a feeling of stewardship and a healthy perspective of my own talent-feeble though it is. It's truly going to take a great God to make something out of it.  Be God's-scott |
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Steve
Bear Cub
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| sharring wrote: | | ...big gap in my jazz education-it's called the 1950's! Thanks for taking the time with me Brother-it's appreciated. Be God's-scott |
Ha hah,
Yes, well I grew up (um, sorta) in the fifties, with an oldest brother who was listening to Miles Davis records!
My parents countered by buying me Gene Krupa, and Benny Goodman albums on birthdays, etc.
When I was starting out on guitar in 1960, at age 10, Dwayne Eddy was The MAN!
I learned that stuff on my own, as my guitar teacher (who played with Mahalia Jackson) didn't want anything to do with "...all that noise."
I listened to Jazz, but couldn't get a handle on it until I was a Music Major in College (where they had an excellent Jazz program) and took some lessons from a Jazz guitarist on the side.
In the sixties we played a lot of whiney Folk songs in Boston, where I went to High School.
Then Paul Butterfield's Blues Band showed up. Man, we all wanted to play like Mike Bloomfield (and of course Eric Clapton, eventually)!
Played Blues and R&B for a few years.
I'm fond of saying, "When I came to California I wanted to play Jazz real bad. Now, I DO!"
I play MANY styles bad, in fact!
Anyways my Jazz light went to sleep for many years after College while I played Pop and Showtunes as a Union "hack." Always had a day job too.
Now though, the kids are raised, the house is paid for, I'm getting close to retirement, my wife is my biggest fan, so why not play Jazz?
Fortunately, since the Ken Burns "Jazz" special aired on PBS a couple years ago, there are now many places to play Jazz locally. None pay much money to speak of, but at least there's some interest in hearing and playing Jazz.
I can play Jazz several nights a week as a sideman in various ensembles, and all that adds up to almost ONE night's Showtunes gig! $$$
Of course, playing church Worship and jails and missions, and even homes for the elderly, is even more satisfying!
But I find myself able to use things I learn on the bandstand playing Jazz more than you'd suspect. A lot of Contemporary Christian and Contemporary Worship is written by some very savvy musicians. I use stuff I learned in College all the time at church.
I've spent the last couple of years getting away from the typical "radio" guitar sounds, and am moving more into a cleaner "Jazz" sound in my fills and solos.
It doesn't work for everything, but I can still bend notes too (even with a 0.014" high E string). 
Jazz is great an' all, but sometimes this ol' geezer needs to just rock out! |
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sharring
Tiger
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 812
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:18 am Post subject: |
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So Steve, what were your "rock" guys you listened to while growing up? I mean besides Duane Eddy? My teacher started me on Chuck Berry (a good place!). I found Bloomfield by reading interviews with G.E. Smith and Roben Ford. Like Clapton and Hendrix, Mike seemed to hit the music world like lightning with his style fully formed. Of course he laboured in obscurity for years. Columbia has a great 1 CD compilation I listen to all the time. Another case of great talent, no Jesus.  Be God's-scott |
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Steve
Bear Cub
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| sharring wrote: | | So Steve, what were your "rock" guys you listened to while growing up?... |
Welp,
Johnny and the Hurricanes had stuff like "Red River Rock."
I liked a lot of the guitar instrumentals like "Wild Weekend" (actually more saxophone, but it was a hit).
"Pipeline," was another, and "Wipeout."
Lonnie Mack had hits with "Memphis," and a couple others.
Link Wray was a heavy hitter (still is).
Of course mixed with Rock there were other genres with guitarists I liked:
Roy Clark; Chet Atkins; Carlos Montoya.
I like Blues-based Rock, so naturally Johnny Winter caught my ear, as well as Jeff Beck. Rick Derringer is a real Rocker but he's Bluesy in the Rock way.
We had some local legends in Boston: The Caldwell-Winfield Blues Band; J.Geils Band.
Aerosmith played the same Rathskellars as the rest of us.
Then came Fusion: Larry Coryell mixed Rock drive with some Jazz. Of course Mahavishnu John Mclaughlin & Carlos Santana.
Buzzy Feiten was very good at Fusion.
A lot of the Rock instrumentals of the '50's and '60's were actually studio guys like Glen Cambell and other Country and Rockabilly guys.
Guitar played a prominent role in a lot of hit records:
We all watched Ricky Nelson sing on TV and James Burton was not considered the star, but he sure was the star to all us guitar playin' kids.
He wrote the book week after week on TV!
There were countless faceless studio guys playing on hit records with twangy guitars, like the fills and licks on "Six Days on the Road," by Dave Dudley.
It really wasn't until the Surf bands like Dick Dale, or even the Ventures, that you knew what these guitar players actually looked like (except for James Burton).
Yes, of course Chuck Berry had hits.
When I think of Rock guitar I generally noticed that before the Beatles guitar was just another instrument like trombone or accordian.
After the Beatles lots of kids started playing (say, around 1964), and after a few more years of Beach Boys hits and Beatles dukin' it out on radio, the next big thing was the San Francisco sound (summer of love, etc), then Woodstock, where Alvin Lee (Ten Years After) kind of defined the bedrock of "British Invasion" Blues based Rock; Hendrix and Santana were exploring new territory.
By then I was into Rick Derringer, Buzzy Feiten, and Roy Buchanan, along with some lesser knowns.
Dave Mason had an album called Alone Together (after Traffic).
Quicksilver Messenger Service, and Spirit (with Randy California) were pretty happening Rock guys, as was Uriah Heap.
I liked Yes, Genesis, 3 Dog Night, early Fleetwood Mac, etc.
Buffalo Springfield (Steven Stills), even The Rascals!
The Byrds (with Clarence White), The Band, etc.
I guess I got off track a bit:
In the late '50's/early '60's on AM radio (before the advent of "underground FM") a lot of the instrumentals that featured guitar were novelty songs, like "Apache."
It took guys like Scotty Moore (with Elvis), Bill Black, Bill Haley, James Burton, Clif Gallup (with Gene Vincent), and Chuck Berry, to bring it to the forefront as an instrument to be taken seriously (along with Rock&Roll).
It wasn't until the British invasion with guys like Jimmy Paige, et al, that we really learned to appreciate who these players were.
And of course the Rolling Stones taught us all about the overlooked black Blues players like Freddie King, etc. that had all had their effect on what was then happening in Rock guitar.
They made the inroads after commercial radio had given up on promoting anybody except Phil Spector (who used scores of studio musicians), the Beach Boys (Glen Cambell was a studio musician who toured with the Beach Boys, as well as played on their records), etc.
AM radio was looking for the next Ronettes ("My Boyfriend's Back").
The Beatles turned everything back to guitar based Rock and Roll, with a slightly Americanized sound (go figure).
We're great at exporting stuff, then buying it back at a higher price from Europe or Japan, then finding out it was ours to begin with.
Ah, the foibles of a market driven society. |
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