Creation vs. Evolution

jeff_osu · Tiger Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 838 Location: Oklahoma

I'm not trying to start a huge controversy with this thread, but I was talking with someone the other day about this topic and it really made me think about it alot. Just wondering what y'all's input was on it. I can't recall ever hearing about it in Church, but I can see why that is because we're here and it's dumb to fight about how we got here. I just think it's interesting to hear what people have to say about it.

ACfixer · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:56 am Post subject:

Well, for me it's not even an issue Jeff. I take the Bible as 100% truth and it says God made everything. I don't understand fully it but I believe it and my faith stands on it.

The only thing I find to be an issue is the actual age of the earth and I feel that is open to a few different ideas. I think alot changed as a result of the great flood and that much water could wreak havoc on most any scientific experiment.

Faith is based on the evidence of things unseen, and for me the evidence screams that there is an intelligent and all powerful creator. Now, whether or not things have evolved over the years... I think in many ways yes. Not to the extent of what Darwin thought might explain our existence, because I think what Darwin witnessed is simply the laws of nature that God set into effect, survival of the fittest. Obviously as the lower leaves get eaten the animals that can reach higher ones will eat, survive, and breed with others and their offspring will be superior in many ways due to the genetics. Darwin tried to extend over a period of millions of years what he was able to see took place over tens or hundreds of years. Darwin himself admitted that if no intermediate species could be found to bridge fossil and modern species that his theory was just that and nothing more.

As far as how old earth is, I don't sweat it. Whether it is 12,000 years old or 5 Billion doesn't change the fact that Christ died for us and that is our only hope for when we leave this planet. Smile

Personally I lean toward a younger earth because there is no history of man before Biblical times that I can see. The writings of the Egyptians, Chinese, and Babylonians all seem to date about the same time as the earliest Biblical writings. I've never seen any cave markings that they can date older than about 7,000 years ago. It's hard for me to imagine that all of a sudden people decided to draw and write 7,000 years ago and before that time there was a million years (or whatever) of silence. To communicate is an instinct that not only mankind but almost all species possess in one form or another. Dogs pee on things, other animals scratch bark from trees etc... people write and draw, always have.

jeff_osu · Tiger Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 838 Location: Oklahoma

7,000 years sounded young for the oldest civilization, so I looked around, and by golly you're right! Razz

I thought that were was a civilization before Egypt that was older than that but I couldn't find anything.

I read a scientific theory once that explained the big bang theory and could do everything but explain how matter got there. It proved every point otherwise. My view point is that is Jesus talked in parables why couldn't some of the Bible be like that also? Who knows what seven days to God is, not like He's pressed for time right? God made the universe so neat that to me evolution and the big bang are so logical it just fits. It is truly amazing how ordered our world is, there aren't any HUGE phenomena that just aren't consistent. The periodic table is the best example, He took about 80 (naturally occuring) or so elements and made all this stuff, and anyone who's ever been in a Physics or Chemistry class can attest to how ordered our world is. So I guess I beleive that's *how* God made us, but I've been made fun because of it.

Meridian · House Cat Joined: 02 Dec 2002 Posts: 154

One of my required grad school classes at Regent was a Foundations of Science course that spent a good deal of time on Creationism and evolution. It was taught by a prof who had a PhD in Physics and was a leading author in the field. It made my head hurt. Rolling Eyes

Among other things, I learned these:

1. You will find yourself agreeing with the position (e.g. Old-Earth Creationist, young-Earth Creationist, etc.) that you spend the most time reading about. It's not a problem with being double-minded; it's just that almost every position has compelling arguments - scientific and theological - for their beliefs.

2. "God can create old rocks." The import of that simple statement seems to escape 80% of the people who hear it.

Personally, I wouldn't spend any more time on this than absolutely necessary because it usually boils down to a "Did Adam and Eve have bellybuttons?" kind of argument. Our limitations as sinful humans prevent us from knowing the precise truth on the subject ("Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror"), and whatever we choose to believe about Creation ultimately becomes a matter of faith.

Mer

ACfixer · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:05 am Post subject:

Hehehe yeah, God can make old rocks! But... can God make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?

PunkStar · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:09 am Post subject:

Well, Creationism all the way! For 2 simple reasons.

1. The fossil record agrees with the Bible. They haven't managed to find anything that is an inbetween form of some animal.

2. Evolution is based on the thought that an accident can do something good. Since when has an accident ever done anything good. For example, car crashes. I think that says enough. To my knowledge, an accident has never achieved anything good. So evolution doesn't work.

Just my thoughts. But I'm only 15, I don't tend to think out things.

ACfixer · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:52 am Post subject:

Sounds like you thought it through pretty well to me PunkStar. Cool

markm2553 · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:54 am Post subject:

We seem to talk about this subject quite often in teen group these days. There are some very good books out there on the subject, one I really like it Evolution vs Creation. Not a large book, but packed with information. By the time you read the first three chapters, you wonder how anyone could "believe in Evolution". I'm not really suprised at what the secular world is lead to believe, but it really gets me when Christians sound "confused". I don't understand how God did it, I just believe Genesis 1:1. So in believing that, if I understand God made everything, what then can't God do? Great flood, covering the whole Earth? Virgin Birth, raise the dead, feed 5000, live in my heart?
ICor 1:19 (New Living) As the Scriptures say, "I will destroy human wisdom and discard their most brilliant ideas."
Some things to think about;
1) How long was Adam in the Garden before God made Eve? ( He named every animal God made before she came along.) Gen 1:19
2) How long where they in the garden before the act of sin?
3) Like was said in earlier post, how old did God make the Earth when He made it?

I also know that I'm not very smart, if I could understand all that God does, He would not be much of a God.

ACfixer · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:43 am Post subject:

jamesron41 · Lion Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 945 Location: Waco,TX

Well, I believe God works in mysterious ways.

I think God is behind it all. How he did it, I have no idea. I just know he did it. You know, you "just know". Smile

tommyd · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:04 pm Post subject:

For reasons already stated, creation. Have an active prayer life and truth will rest in your heart. I look people in the eyes and say "I believe what the Bible says." #Scatter

jeff_osu · Tiger Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 838 Location: Oklahoma

Sorry to ressurect my own thread....

I was listening to a Christian rock station (89.7 Power FM out of Dallas) and they a blurb called "Creation Moments". It said they found a bell that was 300 years old in a bay that had been fossilized, thus completely disproving all scientific theories. The issue isn't what made me raise an eyebrow, just the fact that they're trying to prove it because of one incidence over the radio. If you have to prove your faith to somebody (even yourself), something doesn't add up. Bottom line I guess, it just struck me as totally ignorant...God made the universe phenomally ordered. It amazes me how everything 'gels'. But half-lifes and that sort of thing are pretty concrete theories, if not laws.

The only thing the guy said that I agreed with was "The one rock we should be interested in is Jesus." If he said all of the rest to make that point than I guess I understand...but sheesh. I guess I don't like to have other people's ideas blasted at me when I'm trying to relax listening to music.

Disclaimer: It's ok to blast ideas on forums though. Laughing

Steve · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:27 pm Post subject:

Uh,
I have a problem with Biblical Literalists.
Much of the Bible is poetry and symbolism starting from a spoken tradition.
It's not a Scientific treatise about how.
It's a moral treatise about Who and why.
The major themes resurface over and over in chiasms, poetry, parallelisms, etc etc. They are: mercy; justice; obedience; forgiveness; Love; redemption; etc etc.

I don't personally care whether the earth is 6,000 years old (as the Biblical Literalists believe, based on scriptural references), or whether what God began evolved into creatures that eventually turned their eyes heavenwards (as Jesus did numerous times), and Worshipped Him as maker.

Maybe our bodies evolved along certain lines and then God breathed consciousness of life into our race at some point in time. Maybe that's an interpretation of the creation symbolic poetry concerning mankind's spirit/soul/psyche. Maybe that's a heretical notion. I don't know. Don't care. God will correct me if need be.

I could be wrong. Many seem to have been before me. It's ineffible, in the final analysis. How does He confound the wise? I don't know how. I only know the Bible says He does.

It really doesn't make any difference to my Faith, which God gave/gives me.
I have been in Communion with Jesus, at times, and that Love overwhelms me when I experience it.
The Bible tells me how to access this other reality, as the Holy Spirit leads.
I never had peace in my life until I surrendered to Jesus. Now I do.

That didn't involve any arguing about how God did anything He has done, or how long it took, or whether or not I agree with anybody in either camp.

I prefer to major in majors (like Redemption themes), and wait on God about the many mysteries. Someday we'll all know. I am content with that.

A man convinced against his will,
is of the same mind still!

My job is to walk humbly with my Lord; Love, as I am loved; forgive; and try to help people.
It blesses me to do so. I never knew what "blessed" was until the Bible led me to experience it as a Spiritual principle: "It is more blessed to give than receive."
I shall try to continue these blessed experiences therefore, not based on subjective feelings or scientific evidence either way, but by Faith. And He gives me that.
And even if as I age the sense of blessings diminishes, Jesus is still right about everything He has said, and I know it to my core. I choose to believe it.
Love is a choice too.
Let everything that has breath Praise The Lord.

sharring · Tiger Joined: 04 Feb 2004 Posts: 812 Location: Texas

Well said. Very Happy

scott

dertsa · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject:

Fairly recently I have had this conversation with my girlfriend, the question that came up was did God create the earth in 6 literal days, and 6 vast spans of time and let the world evolve for itself. After doing a lot of research on this topic, I read somewhere that the Hebrew word for day used in Genesis 1 is "Yom" which is used in terms of a literal, ordinary day.

The second thing which I have found very profound in my beliefs toward this subject a friend told me while on a backpacking trip. He explained that sin included death. So, there was no death sin. The principle behind evolution is death. Things die, and their offspring slowly change to addapt to climate, disease, preditors or any other hardship they found. So, if there was no death before sin, how could evolution occur?

There. That's my two cents. God Bless.