Calling All CAPO Users..A Debate!

music wasn't part of me · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: Calling All CAPO Users..A Debate!

Allright, I just read an article that says Capo Users are considered lazy people...not respecting the real ART of the music. The article says Jazz players are better musicians because they avoid capo-ing the fret board, they always try to comeup with something new.

Before I knew what a capo was, I used to play all 12Major Chord Formations....really putting my fingers to work,I have to admit,that hardwork with frets has really improved my playing and also my knowledge....If i had used a capo from the start, I wouldn't have improved as much

What do you Capo-ers think?

PunkStar · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject:

I think that article is highly arrogant. To insult another musician's playing style without knowing the reasons why they do what they do is the height of rudeness. There are a couple of good technical reasons why I think a capo should be considered an essential tool for the creative musician. The problem with that article is that it only took into account a narrow perspective of musicianship knowledge. Just like in our faith, we should remember what is important, but we should also never let ourselves become condescending to the needs of others (eg. how Jesus responded to the people that brought the adulteress to him for "judgement").

Yes, the capo can be used as a way of playing in a different key without learning to play new chords. But there are plenty of reasons to play them that way besides easy key changes. Consider our more elderly players, very new guitarists, or perhaps even people suffering a form of muscle degradation in their hand. For those people, it can very much be a challenge to hold down that bar chord. Well if they have to hold it for a whole song, why not give them something to make life just a little easier? I'd rather have them playing and enjoying playing then not being able to at all.

But there are more technical reasons why a capo is a good thing, and these are the types of reasons true professions may very well keep one in their guitar cases.

The first reason is that using a capo actually provides a moveable zero fret. In other words; by using a capo, you can play a note without having to place a finger at that position on the fretboard. Why is that useful? Well, sometimes you might find you just don't have enough fingers to do the chord sometimes, this is an effective workaround. Or, maybe the note you want is out of reach. Say you are fingerpicking a chord up on the twelth fret, but you'd really like to get a nice bass note from the third fret. I know I can't reach that, but put a capo on the third fret, and I can just play the string for that note. As long as I don't want anything on the open, first or second fret, then it's all good. Otherwise, it looks like you'll be moving your hand around a lot. And you'll want to make sure you write your song so people don't notice the gap in your fingerpicking to reach that note (which there are plenty of ways to do by the way). Adjustable zero frets are good, feel free to make use of the in your playing and remember that the capo is key their use (alternate tunings are also possible, but not as powerful).

Another thing about capos is that they allow the player to take into account the different tonal qualities of the same key in different positions without unnecessary complexity. Sure, a player can play in E down the fretboard, or higher up without a capo. But you still have to learn the additional chord shapes. If you just want to see where the song works better, why go to all the unnecessary effort of something you may well never want to use again. And if you do want to keep the new position, then you can just keep the capo there, or you can learn the new position and be just as happy. The point is, the whole reason we have tools like capos is simply to get the job done. If you can pound in a nail with your bear hands, that's great. But don't let anyone tell you there is shame in using a hammer if that's what the job needs.

At the very least, I would more than recommend learning to use a capo, simply for how it helps your relative thinking. For example, play an open A major chord, slide it up two frets, and put a capo on the second fret, and you've turned an A major into B major. That capo on the second increases every note by a tone (two notes up), so every C is now a D. Every F# is now G#. This relative thinking now has us seeing the fretboard in terms of what notes we are actually playing, then just what chord shape we are playing. Ultimately, I think that is a valuable step to getting us to think outside of the box and are able to start putting together ideas that are truly creative.

There is a common misconception that music theory is the rules you must follow to right good music. No, theory just gives us words to explain what we are doing. There is no law that says we have to obey it's conventions. Really, at the end of the day, guitar should be able the expression of what you want to say, not having to satisfy some arrogant "guitar hero" with "proper technique". As long as you can do with the guitar what you want and are happy with what you are doing, then no one else really has any right to tell you to play otherwise. Of course, in a band, there needs to be some give and take. But ultimately, you've got to love what you do, and live with yourself for it.

So what is the answer here. I feel the best road to take is the middle one. Allow yourself to be as good a musician as possible, after all, why limit yourself? But never allow yourself to think less of simple methods just because they aren't as sophisticated as others you may know. In the interests of new and creative ideas for your own composition, a capo is never a tool to be discarded. Please politely ignore anyone that says otherwise.

EDIT: Maybe I ought to copy this into the PunkStar's lessons forum. It's been a while since I posted anything there.

J Dan Brown · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject:

That's really great stuff, Punkstar! A great explaination and exceptional reasoning.

I play solo and live, unplugged a lot and a capo is very important to me. Sure I could play in Bb or Eb if needed to sing there, but I could make so much more clear, ringing chords with less effort if I played in A or D with a capo on the 1st fret. Playing in Bb or Eb with all barre chords takes so much more effort and distracts from your vocals. Playing solo, it seems that the more full 6-string chords with the most open strings is best. some songs even seem to be written for and work best in only a couple of keys with certain chord inversions.
Blessed, enormously with zero "capo guilt," Dan Very Happy

sharring · Tiger Joined: 04 Feb 2004 Posts: 813 Location: Texas

A capo is just a tool like a hammer. You can drive a nail with it or hit your thumb. The music's the thing. Smile

music wasn't part of me · Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject:

George E · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:59 am Post subject:

how "Far" have you ever capo-ed the fretboard?

I once capoed an electric 12-string on the 12th fret to emulate a mandolin. The key word in that sentence is "once".

J Dan Brown · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:48 am Post subject:

Myself, guys, I rarely go past the 4th fret, playing in "D" to acheive "F#." And this is rare, as I generally use the 3rd to sing things I once sang in "G" in my youth, in "F." I rarely play in "C" and I really don't know why.
I also noticed with my own voice that I can sing much higher in front of an audience without effort, than I can home alone or demo-ing to my beloved. This mean that sometimes I find that things that were a strain at home in 'G" that I changed to "F," were effortless in "G" with an audience. I play in "A" a lot, but occaisionally if a tune has all three relative minors, I will play in "G" capoed on the 2nd to utilize the 2 open minors and avoiding the barre "C#m" on the 4th fret. Please don't ask me why I don't mind a full barre "Bm," but despise the "C#m," only 2 frets higher, 'cause I really don't know. Also playing mostly solo, capoing too far up the neck seems to rob one of bottom. And it seems to matter less on a lesser expensive guitar, for some mysterious reason, also, and women can get away with it more than men.
So blessed, but so confused and in need of "chord therapy" Laughing

, Dan

markm2553 · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:22 am Post subject:

Capo is good...
Flats are bad... Laughing

I use mine whenever I need to, never a second thought.

I have a couple of songs I capo at the 4th.

Lazy? I can live with that. Wink

sharring · Tiger Joined: 04 Feb 2004 Posts: 813 Location: Texas

Once in nashville i had the pleasure of seeing Jim Messina at a small place off music row-it was set up where the performer was in the middle of the room and the audience arranged themselves around, so i was able to get close. A woman who was sitting in was using capos with notches filed out on certain strings. Sounded cool.

PunkStar · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject:

How far I'd go with a capo depends on the design of the capo itself. I don't think mine will let me go higher than the 12th fret, if it even lets me get that far. It also depends on the design of your guitar's neck. My acoustic is a really solid where the neck joins the body so I can't get my capo around there. In general, I'll play it wherever, but it's not unusual to see me put it around the 7th fret. I think John Mayer has a song with the capo around there.

By the way, has anyone seen those capos that you leave permanently attached to the guitar's head and it moves around your guitar with rollers? Those are good.

J Dan Brown · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject:

I really don't like "Keyser" capos (the wierd, most common clothes-pin type) because you can't put your guitar in the case with the capo on the neck. My favorite (and I only own one, and use it on the Guild) is the "Shubb" made of stainless steel with a clamp device that you can leave clamped to the nut and the guitar will still go in the case. All that is needed for use is to undo the clamp, tighten the thumb screw a bit, chose your fret and re-clamp it. You have to loosen the thumb adjustment screw a bit to re-clamp it on the nut, as it is thicker there than it is on the neck between frets. I like it though, because you never find yourself, leaving your capo in your case by accident and having to scramble for it in the case, in embarrassment, on the first tune requiring it while playing. I tolerate the Keyser, only when I forget to change them. I did wear out the black plastic piece that presses to the strings on the Shubb once, and had to use a piece of clear tubing (similar to aquarium air-line tubing but larger) 'til I could get the black piece, horseshoe shaped with the flat surface on one side. The tubing worked, but the orignal part works much better without affecting intonation. The main thing about these capos is to not overdo the tension (with a Keyser your stuck with their spring's tension), using just enough to eliminate rattle and not to over-tighten which can stretch the strings (especially if you place it too close to the fret). Just my 37 cents worth! Rolling Eyes

Blessed, by the discovery of the Shubb capo years ago, Dan

"Seems like lately on some mornings, I can feel an urgency!
Is it that You're coming back so soon, or something I must do?
Keep me in Your Word and prayer so deep, and cause my eyes to see.
This world can lie so easily; I'm so glad that I've got You!"

(from "Within the Shelter of Your Wings" by J. Dan Brown)

jaketh · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject:

I have been using a capo for a while now. I didn't use one when I was first learning so I know all of the main chord formations in each key. If I had used a capo from the start I wouldn't have learn that many chords. I might have just learned the key of "G" and just capo'd it to get other keys. Now I just use it to "quickly transpose" a song when I don't have the time to sit down and figure it out or do it on the spot in my head.
I think its a handy tool.
I also think it could be a "lazy mans tool" if it is used excessively with 4 chord formations.
Thats all I've got to say about that.

markm2553 · Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:29 am Post subject:

Jaketh, welcome to the forum! Exclamation

Good to have you, hope you stay a while.

I didn't know what a capo was for the first few years, I'm with you, I think I might have stopped at G. Wink

I'm afraid I'm a Keyser kind a guy. I like that I can angle the capo across the strings to help with any intinuation trouble. And it is fast to change when going from one P&W song right into the next.

Anybody wanta race? Very Happy

J Dan Brown · Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:33 am Post subject:

I would much rather be considered lazy and sound good, than proudly state that I regularly play in Eb and C#, with several muffled strings. I guess it could be considered lazy to need a Shubb capo that can live on your guitar, and not have to get it out when you need it, but then I am not much on "pride." I am more a creature of "convienence."

It amazes me sometimes when people debate chord names, scales and chord progressions to a point where music becomes a "technology" rather than a "pleasure," and a way to praise and worship the Father and His Son, and to spread the Good News, but then I'm lazy, I suppose.

I would like to add, however, that one of the longest and most complicated songs I do solo (and know by heart, somehow) is "Prodigal Son Suite" by the late Keith Green. The original tune, I understand was more or less ad libbed during a live performance (I am sure he had thought about it before), solo on piano with vocals. After his death, they added tracks by the London Philharmonic Orchestra. Now this song is like a mini opera. He did it in starting in Cm, but that's too high for my voice, so I start in Am, not for convienence, but because I sing 3 frets lower than Mr. Green. This song changes keys about 10 times during the course of about 15 minutes, mostly between Am, C major, A major and G major, but in the last 25% of it, it changes keys from A major to F# major to C# major to Eb major to C major, then back to A major. This is not a matter of pride or convienence, but the way the song goes and in the closest combination of keys that my voice can tolerate.
Blessed, and still without "capo shame," Dan

jaketh · Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject:

Hey Dan,

I had to smile at your post. I didnt mean to offend anyone......well, maybe but just for fun you know.
Anyway you could tell me where to fine tab and/or chords for that Keith
Green song. Sounds interesting.

God bless.
Jake