What is truth?

PunkStar · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:58 pm Post subject: What is truth?

My English teacher is an interesting one. She and I usually manage to get into some sort of non-violent arguement about something religious. Today she said something interesting. That she believes there is no such thing as an absolute truth that is true for everyone. Different people see truth differently. I disagree on this. It was only a single period of English class today, so there wasn't enough time to argue and still get some work done. But for some reason she left it open for discussion later. Probably not a wise idea on her part. I love a good arguement, and I can fight for a long time on matters of theology. So I thought I'd come get some opinions from you guys on the absolutivity (I just made that word up, cool huh) of truth.

I say that truth is absolute and the same for everyone. Regardless of whether or not people choose to believe it. There are very basics of our society that rely on certain things being absolutely true. Like the sky is blue. If there weren't things that were true, then our society would fall apart. There are things we all recognize as true, so her theory is wrong in that regard. Truth isn't something that only exists as it is seen through a person's eyes.

My English teacher is supposedly a Christian (according to what she says). However, I've discussed her faith with her. She's said that she doesn't believe a person can know God. So I think she's missed something important for being a Christian. If anyone has any opinions on how I can persuade her that a person can know God, I'd like to know them too.

Thanks for the opinions.

Herb · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject:

Ah, but the sky isn't blue. It is absolute black (total absense of color). The blue we see is created by the refraction of the sun's rays in the atmosphere. That is an example of her argument, Punkstar. However, things like "our Earth exists", and "I exist", and "we all will die" (at least our physical bodies) are pretty inarguable.

ACfixer · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:44 pm Post subject:

Ahhhh Herb, I understand it differently. From my knowledge, the sky is the absolute opposite color of what it appears to be. For instance a red guitar is truly green, because the red rays are reflected to our eyes but the green rays are absorbed. Wink

Circular arguements are fun for awhile...

shardy53 · Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject:

There are many absolute truths. They are not effected by our feelings and perceptions. They apply to everyone weather or not we choose to believe them. These truths do not change in our ever changing world, we only discover more of them as we advance in certain areas. Some of the things that we consider absolute truths today may be disproved tomorrow but the real truth will remain the same nonetheless.

The two problems that we have in seeing the truth, stem from our feelings, emotions, and the limited boundries of our minds. What your teacher sadly doesn't understand, is that human feelings and emotions do not alter the absolute laws of the universe and the absolute laws of God.

Steve

Steve · Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject:

It would take a long time to discuss Truth, because the parties in discussion must find and define common terminology, etc: Linguistics and semantics.

Sounds like she's coming from Relativism, but even Stephen Hawking knows that at some point there was a prime mover (before the Big Bang, or as we call it "Creation"). That "unknown" (to him) Prime Mover even Hawking calls "God."
I'd start there, as before there was anything material at all, there was something that EVERYTHING we know now was/is in RELATION to (Relativism defined).
Therefore the thing that existed before there was anything else related to it is your Absolute Truth, which we as Christians bear witness to as God.
What God has created is Absolute Truth. He is the author of it.
His laws are incorruptable, therefore: absolute.
He is the beginning and the end; the alpha and omega; The Absolute Truth.
And what He says is True is absolutely true, and so far, irrefutable. It can ALSO be "relative" with respect to things that are not true, but only His Truth can be Absolutely true, as reflected by the laws of Physics in His universe: which seem pretty immutable to me, unless I'm missing something. I mean, if I lean my chair back far enough, gravity will demonstrate itself as many repeatable times as any scientist would like it to. Absolutely.

The other points raised revolve around perception, which is big in the field of Psychology.
Many writers of the past in Literature, before the field of Psycholgy existed as we know it today: men like William Blake, William James, Shakespear, and even the Greeks of antiquity like Plato, understood the concepts regarding expectation and perception, cultural mores, etc.

The question is whether man is the measure of all things (secular Humanism): therefore god exists as WE "perceive" HIM, and all things are relative, which grew out of previous models of perception like the Golden Mean or great chain of being; the Greek notions of moderation, Stoicism, Epicuriansim, ad nauseam:
OR, in the case of what most Christians believe: that GOD sets the boundaries of all things, beyond which we cannot see except darkly, as through a dim glass, and we are told to take care and not be fooled by perceptions that do not hold up under close scrutiny (usually moral).

For me, it is the aspect of LOVE, in an otherwise cold dark universe, in which God has revealed Himself to me in His Word, and through the experience of Communion and fellowship with Him in the Spirit, that led me away from my previous secular humanistic beliefs (atheism), and relativism, to The New Life that Jesus promises, and delivers.

I guess I just never saw Love in a Petrie dish under the microscope, but it is the center of my universe now.
So far no scientist, for all their inflated claims, has ever produced even a single blade of grass, though they can certainly manipulate
things -already created- into some interesting distortions, A.K.A. perversions.

It could be argued that "That is just my perception."

It could also be argued that atheists have "faith" in THEIR belief system.
I so argue.
They "know" there are no absolutes.

I know He who IS absolute, personally.
I've met with Him many times.
In fact, I was just communing with Him this morning.

That brings up the subject and experience of Grace, but that discussion is reserved for those who've experienced conviction.
Ah, another time perhaps. Wink

PunkStar · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:13 am Post subject:

Ahh, some deep answers there. Thanks guys.

jeff_osu · Tiger Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 839 Location: Oklahoma

Here's for a not so deep answer...

If you want absolute truth, go pick up a Physics and Chemistry textbook....God made a really amazing system that governs earth.

As far as green actually being red, if you're over a certain depth (I think 15 feet) under water, and you're bleeding, your blood will look dark green. The wavelengths that would reflect red light are too weak to penetrate certain depths of the water....that's why the ocean is blue, it's deep.

As far as your teacher, I can see her point of view (not saying I agree with it). Don't be too quick to put someone's beliefs below yours, that won't want to make anybody Christian. God is soooo incredibly over our heads...not saying you can't know Him, but we'll never understand Him. That might have been what she meant, but honestly, it only matters to her and God. Not everyone has the same relationship with God, but it comes down to 1) They accepted Jesus is their savior and died for thier sins and 2) They truly believe in God as the Almighty. Other than that, it's just really details.

Steve · Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:53 am Post subject:

Amen!

I like it. Cool